ID Refusal Officer Lentz MPD
YouTuber 'superrick568' posted this video. We presume he is the unseen individual being dressed down by the officer in this video.
Officer "Let me see your ID!" Lentz is an outstanding ambassador for the city of Milwaukee and his department ... with his combative and adversarial tone, saying nothing of his demands for ID and veiled threats. And Sergeant "That's just him!" Carpenter is fine example of a police supervisor ... with her dismissive attitude toward a citizen complaint.
I enjoyed that deflating moment at around 3:15 when Lentz realized he'd been beaten. All he had for you after that point was schoolyard sarcasm.
"On 03/05/16 the Milwaukee police went on a ticket writing bonanza. I filmed this guy and his partner three times in less than an hour. There were so many stops within a 2 mile radius that I couldn't keep up. The third time got to him and he demanded my I.D. ."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01EvBA0Y3U
Peace Officers
Officer "Let me see your ID!" Lentz, badge #1763
Sergeant "That's just him." Carpenter, badge #389
One of the first techniques you want to see from a police making a stop is de-escalation of a potentially adversarial encounter. But there was none of that here. Officer Lentz was in a fully-escalated mode when he briskly walked up to the individual and got right in his face and demanded ID, refusing to take "no" for an answer.
Officer Lentz was unnecessarily aggressive and hostile, combative, badgering and harassing toward the individual he stopped, shouting commands to "show me your ID!" and lambasting him for "following [the officers] around."
In merely watching the video of the officer's hostile and continuous rain of belligerently yelling orders, the intense verbal tirade against the individual, one senses the intimidation created by the officer during the encounter was palpable to anyone.
I may be bothered most by Sergeant Carpenter's dismissive response to the complaint, saying "That's just him."
CONTROLLING DEMEANOR and REPEATED COMMANDS AMOUNT TO DETENTION
Telling the individual to produce identification and "I wanna know who you are" no less than two-dozen times amounts to a demand by any reasonably peaceful observer. Because of the officer's behavior and commanding tone, no court would have considered this encounter a consensual one; this was a full-on investigative detention.
We don't need to be terribly intimate with the American lexicon to understand the power of veiled threats by police officers. Among the most interesting ones is designed to maintain deniability should he be challenged on it: "I'm only going to tell you once." Or, "I'm going to give you one more chance to comply." The denial: "I never actually threatened [to arrest] him."
What can't be denied, though, is that, even though ambiguously stated, warning that you're only going to say something one more time is both powerful, and a universally-underststood threat that some form of consequences will ensue if complicency isn't achieved quickly and forthrightly -- even if the exact consequences aren't spelled out. In fact, oftentimes it's the vagueness of the threat, the fear of the unknown, that becomes the most intimidating factor of such a veiled threat.
------------------ 0:00 ------------------
(Officer Lentz gets out of car at curbside and approaches superrick568. Lentz's tone indicates a clear frustration.)
------------------ 0:14 ------------------
Officer Lentz
"Okay, now that you're filming me and everything, let me see your ID."
superrick568
"What am I doing?"
Officer Lentz
"Right now?"
superrick568
"Yeah."
Officer Lentz
"Let me see your ID!"
superrick568
"Why?"
Officer Lentz
"Why?"
superrick568
"Yeah, why?"
Officer Lentz
"Because, I wanna know who you are, why you keep following us around. You can film all you want and that's fine with me..."
superrick568
"I know I can."
Officer Lentz
"But I still wanna know who you are."
superrick568
"I'm not asking permission."
Officer Lentz
"I wanna know who you are, so let me see your ID."
superrick568
"Unless I've done something wrong, I'm not going to."
Officer Lentz
"Right now?"
superrick568
"Yeah."
Officer Lentz
"You are doing something wrong."
superrick568
"What's that?"
Officer Lentz
"I just asked you for your identification. I need to know who you are because you are sitting out here filming us. With all the crazy stuff going around in this world nowadays, I am worried ... yes I am ... for my safety, their safety (pointing to his left) and anybody else out here right now."
superrick568
"Uh huh."
Officer Lentz
"You can keep filming me. Let me see your ID. I'm gonna take a look and then you can film me all you want."
------------------ 1:00 ------------------
superrick568
"What's my ID gonna tell you?"
Officer Lentz
"It's gonna tell me who you are and make sure that you're not somebody that's doing crazy things out here."
superrick568
"How you gonna tell that by my [identification]?"
Officer Lentz
"Because I'm gonna run you."
superrick568
"That's not gonna tell you anything..."
Officer Lentz
"Yes it is. Go ahead and bring it out. You can film me all day, brother, I don't care."
superrick568
"I haven't done anything wrong."
Officer Lentz
"That's why they're called field contact interviews. Now you've brought yourself to us, now I wanna know who you are!"
superrick568
"Uh huh."
Officer Lentz
"So let me see your ID, please."
------------------ 1:26 ------------------
superrick568
“Is that a lawful request?”
Officer Lentz
“Yes it is.”
superrick568
“Or an order?”
Officer Lentz
“Na-I'm asking you, let me see your driver's license or your ID please.”
superrick568
“I'm denying that.”
Officer Lentz
“Okay then, why don't you just turn around and walk away.”
superrick568
“Cuz I'm not going to.”
Officer Lentz
“Then let me see your ID. I'm only gonna ask you one more time.”
superrick568
“Wait, I just asked you…“
Officer Lentz
“Let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“I just ask you if...”
Officer Lentz
“I just asked you, and I gave you my reason why I'm out here talking to you now.”
superrick568
“Unless I've violated...”
Officer Lentz
“Now I want...you are violating my rights right now”
superrick568
“Why?”
Officer Lentz
“Because you're stopping us from doing our job pertaining to him over there.”
superrick568
“But he's still doing it.”
Officer Lentz
“There's two of us here. There's two of 'em in the car. Right now you are creating a disturbance. “
superrick568
“I'm not creating a disturbance.”
Officer Lentz
“Yes you are.”
superrick568
“I'm not in your investigation at all.”
Officer Lentz
“You're taking me away...”
superrick568
“I'm 25 to 30 feet away.”
Officer Lentz
“Yes you are. You're taking away our concern because I gotta look for our safety, I gotta look for our safety as well as theirs' in the car. Let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“All I got is a camera.”
Officer Lentz
“I'm asking you, let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“Sir, I've done nothing wrong.”
Officer Lentz
“Yes you are! You're interrupting our investigation here.”
superrick568
“What statute is that?”
Officer Lentz
“What did I just tell you? It's a safety-for officers and for the people in the car. You followed from over there, and Tower, all the way over here, and now you got my concern going. You can film all you want, I don't have a problem with that. Okay? But I do wanna know who you are. And yes…”
Officer Lentz
“You're being filmed, too.”
superrick568
“Alright. Good.”
Officer Lentz
“So let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“Unless I've violated a law...”
Officer Lentz
“A field- a contact- a field interview contact I can ask you for your information, yes I can.”
superrick568
“Sir, I'm not gonna give you any ID.”
Officer Lentz
“Let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“I'm not gonna give you any.”
Officer Lentz
“Why not?”
superrick568
“Cuz I don't have to. Because I've...”
Officer Lentz
“You got something to hide from me?”
superrick568
“I didn't do-I-I...”
Officer Lentz
“I'm asking you, you got something to hide from me?”
superrick568
“I didn't do anything to show you an ID.”
Officer Lentz
“Right now you did. You're creating my … awareness …”
superrick568
“Will you call your supervisor?”
Officer Lentz
“… and you brought me out here.”
superrick568
“Can you call your supervisor?”
Officer Lentz
“I can bring- I can call a supervisor.”
superrick568
“Call 'em out here.”
------------------ 3:15 ------------------
(Officer Lentz turns around and appears to be making a radio call)
Officer "Let me see your ID!" Lentz is an outstanding ambassador for the city of Milwaukee and his department ... with his combative and adversarial tone, saying nothing of his demands for ID and veiled threats. And Sergeant "That's just him!" Carpenter is fine example of a police supervisor ... with her dismissive attitude toward a citizen complaint.
I enjoyed that deflating moment at around 3:15 when Lentz realized he'd been beaten. All he had for you after that point was schoolyard sarcasm.
"On 03/05/16 the Milwaukee police went on a ticket writing bonanza. I filmed this guy and his partner three times in less than an hour. There were so many stops within a 2 mile radius that I couldn't keep up. The third time got to him and he demanded my I.D. ."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01EvBA0Y3U
Peace Officers
Officer "Let me see your ID!" Lentz, badge #1763
Sergeant "That's just him." Carpenter, badge #389
One of the first techniques you want to see from a police making a stop is de-escalation of a potentially adversarial encounter. But there was none of that here. Officer Lentz was in a fully-escalated mode when he briskly walked up to the individual and got right in his face and demanded ID, refusing to take "no" for an answer.
Officer Lentz was unnecessarily aggressive and hostile, combative, badgering and harassing toward the individual he stopped, shouting commands to "show me your ID!" and lambasting him for "following [the officers] around."
In merely watching the video of the officer's hostile and continuous rain of belligerently yelling orders, the intense verbal tirade against the individual, one senses the intimidation created by the officer during the encounter was palpable to anyone.
I may be bothered most by Sergeant Carpenter's dismissive response to the complaint, saying "That's just him."
CONTROLLING DEMEANOR and REPEATED COMMANDS AMOUNT TO DETENTION
Telling the individual to produce identification and "I wanna know who you are" no less than two-dozen times amounts to a demand by any reasonably peaceful observer. Because of the officer's behavior and commanding tone, no court would have considered this encounter a consensual one; this was a full-on investigative detention.
We don't need to be terribly intimate with the American lexicon to understand the power of veiled threats by police officers. Among the most interesting ones is designed to maintain deniability should he be challenged on it: "I'm only going to tell you once." Or, "I'm going to give you one more chance to comply." The denial: "I never actually threatened [to arrest] him."
What can't be denied, though, is that, even though ambiguously stated, warning that you're only going to say something one more time is both powerful, and a universally-underststood threat that some form of consequences will ensue if complicency isn't achieved quickly and forthrightly -- even if the exact consequences aren't spelled out. In fact, oftentimes it's the vagueness of the threat, the fear of the unknown, that becomes the most intimidating factor of such a veiled threat.
------------------ 0:00 ------------------
(Officer Lentz gets out of car at curbside and approaches superrick568. Lentz's tone indicates a clear frustration.)
------------------ 0:14 ------------------
Officer Lentz
"Okay, now that you're filming me and everything, let me see your ID."
superrick568
"What am I doing?"
Officer Lentz
"Right now?"
superrick568
"Yeah."
Officer Lentz
"Let me see your ID!"
superrick568
"Why?"
Officer Lentz
"Why?"
superrick568
"Yeah, why?"
Officer Lentz
"Because, I wanna know who you are, why you keep following us around. You can film all you want and that's fine with me..."
superrick568
"I know I can."
Officer Lentz
"But I still wanna know who you are."
superrick568
"I'm not asking permission."
Officer Lentz
"I wanna know who you are, so let me see your ID."
superrick568
"Unless I've done something wrong, I'm not going to."
Officer Lentz
"Right now?"
superrick568
"Yeah."
Officer Lentz
"You are doing something wrong."
superrick568
"What's that?"
Officer Lentz
"I just asked you for your identification. I need to know who you are because you are sitting out here filming us. With all the crazy stuff going around in this world nowadays, I am worried ... yes I am ... for my safety, their safety (pointing to his left) and anybody else out here right now."
superrick568
"Uh huh."
Officer Lentz
"You can keep filming me. Let me see your ID. I'm gonna take a look and then you can film me all you want."
------------------ 1:00 ------------------
superrick568
"What's my ID gonna tell you?"
Officer Lentz
"It's gonna tell me who you are and make sure that you're not somebody that's doing crazy things out here."
superrick568
"How you gonna tell that by my [identification]?"
Officer Lentz
"Because I'm gonna run you."
superrick568
"That's not gonna tell you anything..."
Officer Lentz
"Yes it is. Go ahead and bring it out. You can film me all day, brother, I don't care."
superrick568
"I haven't done anything wrong."
Officer Lentz
"That's why they're called field contact interviews. Now you've brought yourself to us, now I wanna know who you are!"
superrick568
"Uh huh."
Officer Lentz
"So let me see your ID, please."
------------------ 1:26 ------------------
superrick568
“Is that a lawful request?”
Officer Lentz
“Yes it is.”
superrick568
“Or an order?”
Officer Lentz
“Na-I'm asking you, let me see your driver's license or your ID please.”
superrick568
“I'm denying that.”
Officer Lentz
“Okay then, why don't you just turn around and walk away.”
superrick568
“Cuz I'm not going to.”
Officer Lentz
“Then let me see your ID. I'm only gonna ask you one more time.”
superrick568
“Wait, I just asked you…“
Officer Lentz
“Let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“I just ask you if...”
Officer Lentz
“I just asked you, and I gave you my reason why I'm out here talking to you now.”
superrick568
“Unless I've violated...”
Officer Lentz
“Now I want...you are violating my rights right now”
superrick568
“Why?”
Officer Lentz
“Because you're stopping us from doing our job pertaining to him over there.”
superrick568
“But he's still doing it.”
Officer Lentz
“There's two of us here. There's two of 'em in the car. Right now you are creating a disturbance. “
superrick568
“I'm not creating a disturbance.”
Officer Lentz
“Yes you are.”
superrick568
“I'm not in your investigation at all.”
Officer Lentz
“You're taking me away...”
superrick568
“I'm 25 to 30 feet away.”
Officer Lentz
“Yes you are. You're taking away our concern because I gotta look for our safety, I gotta look for our safety as well as theirs' in the car. Let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“All I got is a camera.”
Officer Lentz
“I'm asking you, let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“Sir, I've done nothing wrong.”
Officer Lentz
“Yes you are! You're interrupting our investigation here.”
superrick568
“What statute is that?”
Officer Lentz
“What did I just tell you? It's a safety-for officers and for the people in the car. You followed from over there, and Tower, all the way over here, and now you got my concern going. You can film all you want, I don't have a problem with that. Okay? But I do wanna know who you are. And yes…”
Officer Lentz
“You're being filmed, too.”
superrick568
“Alright. Good.”
Officer Lentz
“So let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“Unless I've violated a law...”
Officer Lentz
“A field- a contact- a field interview contact I can ask you for your information, yes I can.”
superrick568
“Sir, I'm not gonna give you any ID.”
Officer Lentz
“Let me see your ID.”
superrick568
“I'm not gonna give you any.”
Officer Lentz
“Why not?”
superrick568
“Cuz I don't have to. Because I've...”
Officer Lentz
“You got something to hide from me?”
superrick568
“I didn't do-I-I...”
Officer Lentz
“I'm asking you, you got something to hide from me?”
superrick568
“I didn't do anything to show you an ID.”
Officer Lentz
“Right now you did. You're creating my … awareness …”
superrick568
“Will you call your supervisor?”
Officer Lentz
“… and you brought me out here.”
superrick568
“Can you call your supervisor?”
Officer Lentz
“I can bring- I can call a supervisor.”
superrick568
“Call 'em out here.”
------------------ 3:15 ------------------
(Officer Lentz turns around and appears to be making a radio call)
